302: Examining Suffering - PODCAST AUDIO
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[00:00:00] This is the real life runners podcast, episode number 302. Examining suffering in running today. We want to examine the idea of suffering. Why do we put ourselves through it? What is the cost? And is there a benefit. How can we use suffering to our advantage, knowing that we can't avoid it, but also not put ourselves through unnecessary suffering that does not benefit us in some way. Some people try to avoid suffering and make their lives and their training as easy as possible, which leads to lack of progress and not reaching their full potential.
Others seek out suffering for the point of suffering, which leads them to often overtrain do dumb things and get hurt, or they put in a workout just because it looks hard, even though it might not be the best choice for their current training cycle or experience. Today we are going to explore the concepts of pointless suffering and beneficial suffering so that you can use the suffering in running to your advantage so if that sounds interesting [00:01:00] stay tuned.
[00:01:20] Angie: All right. So suffering sounds like a heck of a topic that we wanna start getting into here, right? It's gonna, it's be a fun one. I don't know if we're gonna call it fun. Fun. It will be an interesting conversation for, for sure. And why are we talking about suffering on this week's podcast?
[00:01:37] Kevin: Because that's the outline you wrote.
[00:01:40] Angie: So Yes. So whenever we. Do these podcasts, we try to connect them. I, I just kind of like think about like what's happening in our lives, in our running in the world, in our clients' lives, you know, like some of our coaching clients, like what's going on with people? What are topics that we [00:02:00] are talking about lately, like inside of our academy training calls, like on our live weekly coaching sessions, what are questions we're being asked?
And this week is Holy Week and we are Catholics. And so I have been thinking a lot about the passion of Christ and the resurrection and what we believe, in this Holy Week. And it made me think about this idea of suffering because that's a lot of what Holy Week is about leading up to Easter Sunday, is this idea of the passion of Christ and suffering. And so I was thinking about, you know, Looking at suffering through the lens of running, and also apply it to the rest of our lives as well. Like why do we suffer? What is the point of suffering and what are the different types of suffering that we go through in our running? And in the rest of our lives and what's the point of it all? Why do we do this? You know, like why do we do this to ourselves?
[00:02:54] Kevin: I mean, it's a really good question is there's a lot of, a lot of aspects of running that people are like, yeah, [00:03:00] that's not comfortable. And I don't really like that aspect. Yeah. And I mean, that part really, really hurts and it seems like there's a lot of suffering that's just built into running.
Yeah. So why is it that we keep lacing up and heading out the door?
[00:03:10] Angie: Exactly. So we wanna talk about suffering in two main ways so let's first just kind of jump into this idea of what's the point of suffering?
[00:03:20] Kevin: The point of suffering basically, like a big picture.
[00:03:21] Angie: Yeah. And I think that like, there's a couple ways that I usually like to look at this. I shouldn't say usually, but the way that I was thinking about this when I was outlining this podcast, tee this up for us, is that the, there's kind of two ways that we can handle suffering. There's a third way, but really, two of the ways that I wanna talk about this week is that a lot of times when we see things that are painful or that would cause suffering in our lives, we try to avoid them.
And if we try to completely avoid suffering, this can lead to a lack of growth, a loss of potential and weakness ultimately. Sure. Versus [00:04:00] part two, or way number two is, Some people seek out suffering for the point of suffering, right? Like they just is like, that's gonna be hard and I wanna do it just because it's hard and just because I'm gonna suffer
[00:04:13] Kevin: through it.
Okay? Yeah. So, right. The two extremes. The two extremes, absolutely no suffering versus, I'm gonna go out of my way to make this as, as. Insufferable, is that the right word? I mean it Does insufferable mean full of suffering?
[00:04:25] Angie: I think it does. Yeah. You're better at vocab than I am. That seems right. You actually studied for the s a t.
[00:04:30] Kevin: That seems like one of those silly words that you put in at the front and yet it means filled with suffering. Yeah, insufferable causing suffering.
[00:04:36] Angie: So, so, so if you seek out suffering for the point of suffering, what can happen is that this, in, in our running world, it can lead to over-training doing some dumb things and then getting injured. Right? Just because we're like, I'm gonna do it just because it's hard, or just because I want to challenge myself to the you know, maximum degree.
[00:04:58] Kevin: Well, I mean, there's some people on Instagram that are [00:05:00] yelling at you that if you don't, that you're weak, so clearly. Mm-hmm. You said try to avoid suffering leads to weakness. So obviously the only possible solution is to swing to the complete other side of the pendulum. Yeah. And every day must be an absolute suffer fest, otherwise nothing but weakness.
[00:05:15] Angie: Right. And then really kind of that middle ground of accepting and understanding that suffering is a part of life. Life is 50 50. There's going to be. Good and bad. There are going to be times that are painful and that we are going to have some elephant elephant element of suffering, whether that's in our running or in the rest of our life.
And we need suffering because suffering can help us grow. Suffering can be beneficial, and so we're gonna talk about really two different types of suffering in this episode. Number one would be pointless suffering, and then number two would be beneficial suffering because we also believe that. Suffering can help us to become stronger.
It can help us to build resistance. It can help us learn how to deal with hard things. [00:06:00] And when we do that in our running, we can then take those skills and practice those skills by dealing with discomfort, learning how to lean into discomfort, and then applying that to other areas of our life.
[00:06:13] Kevin: Yeah. Lots of other areas.
Mm-hmm. Like relationships. Mm-hmm. Like just actually thoughts inside of your own head that are uncomfortable. When Angie and I first started dating decades ago, oh my gosh, it has been over two decades. That's what I'm going with decades ago. That in and of itself was just a little bit of suffering there.
what. Just, just saying how long we've been together to suggest how old we actually are as the, the calendar pages just keep flipping. Not that our relationship has been any suffering, but what I'm saying here is none. Hold on. Let see if I can yank my foot out of my mouth and continue my thoughts. When we got together, I was not a big fan of, sharing feelings and emotions.
In case you don't follow us on YouTube to watch these, you're gonna need to go back [00:07:00] and check just that line. It's worth it because I was
[00:07:03] Angie: taking a drink of, I was taking a drink of water when he
[00:07:06] Kevin: said that, but I, I was not a fan, but, Our relationship was going to be built on actual a deeper connection, which was a bit of temporary suffering for me to try and figure out how do I, what do I do with these, these emotions?
How do I share that? That's difficult for me. Mm-hmm. But I'd done difficult things. I had gone through some really hard workouts. I'd done long grueling workouts. I'd done short, brutal workouts. I'm like, wait, I can approach. Uncomfortable situations because I've been in uncomfortable situations. I've been in physically uncomfortable.
But, if you've been running for a while, you know that if you want to hang out in that physical uncomfortable, you have to deal with some mental, mental uncomfortableness also. Mm-hmm. And that can certainly pay great dividends because now we're happily married with beautiful children.
Yeah.
[00:07:53] Angie: So did you actually like, think of that when, like at the time when you were learning or trying to figure out how to [00:08:00] be open with your feelings is like, oh, I've, I've.
Uncomfortable situations in running?
[00:08:04] Kevin: no. No. So at the time I was gonna say that was like some really deep back then. Yeah. No, no, no, no. At the time my thought was not like, oh, well how am I gonna purchase? My thought was, I've, I've done uncomfortable things. Is this going to be like running really far, or sprinting?
This is my thought. Like, and it's kinda like the, the, like, how do you take a bandaid off? Mm-hmm. Like, do you rip it off or do you slowly pull back? I'm like, okay, we're gonna have a conversation. It's gonna involve feeling. Do I just tear the bandaid off or do I gently shit? Like, how, how am I supposed to do this?
Thing is, it's uncomfortable. Both of them. Both the aspects are uncomfortable.
[00:08:41] Angie: Well, I appreciate that you went through that discomfort to get us to where we are today. Thank you. And you have become, Quite good at it. Like it, it's not that it, it's comes easy for you, I would say, but you definitely have gotten much better at some of the uncomfortable [00:09:00] situations and not just avoiding them like you
[00:09:02] Kevin: used to.
Well, I mean that's the key is, is not avoiding the uncomfortable situation. Like maybe I'm not, you used to completely avoid it and I'm still like, I, I really don't go out of my way to seek out uncomfortable conversations. Oh, for sure. Not. You sometimes go out of your way to seek out some uncomfortable conversations.
That's also. I, when there's something that needs to get addressed, will try my best to be like, okay, how are we gonna get this thing covered? I don't want to, I don't, I'm not excited to Yeah, to deal with you uncomfortable, but I don't think a lot of people are super excited to deal with uncomfortable, but you can in fact take things from running and then move that into and, many, many other aspects of your life.
[00:09:39] Angie: Yeah, and I think, like when Kevin and I were kind of talking about this episode, like another thing that came up was this idea of passion because you. During this time of the year, during, you know, holy Week and the week before Easter, there's a lot of religious shows and movies Sure. On tv. Right. And one of the, the most [00:10:00] famous ones, or more famous ones, is the passion of the Christ.
Mm-hmm. And the passion is really the word that they use to describe the suffering of. Christ during holy week during, you know, the, his trip to the mountain and the crucifixion. Yep. They call all of that the passion of Christ. And so we were talking about this idea of passion and. Both of us read a book called The Passion Paradox, a few a couple years ago, which is a fantastic book.
Highly recommend that one if you guys haven't read it yet. that one's by Magnus and Spielberg, right? Yep. Yep. That's, they did that one together. That's one of their, yeah, I think that did, they did that one together. Common ones. so Steve Magnus and Brad Spielberg, passion Paradox. Great book. And in this book, they really point out this idea of.
How passion is as inherently linked to some level of suffering.
[00:10:49] Kevin: Right. So when the word passion even first came around, it was purely used to describe the events around Christ's death. Yeah. Like that was like the only use of it. And then it kind of wasn't even used for much other [00:11:00] things. It then kind of started moving into, and it's been a few years that I read it, but if I remember correctly the way that this was, we, we got the book from the library so I don't have it to reference.
Yeah. but. If I remember correctly, it then moved into love, but it wasn't like mm-hmm. Oh, you're deeply passionate in love with somebody. It moved into unrequited love. It moved into love like Shakespeare time. It was Shakespearean. Yeah. It was, it was love that could not be answered correctly. Mm-hmm.
Like Romeo and Juliet, that was passionate because that was, it was love that shouldn't be happening. Mm-hmm. Therefore, it was, I. Suffering on both sides. And it wasn't until much, much more recently that this whole idea about, well, we all need to like, think about it and focus so we can find our passion.
Cause it'll get us outta bed in the morning. Mm-hmm. Like for centuries, no one would've thought passion is something that's gonna make you like, yeah, I'm gonna kick the sheets off and jump outta bed. Like passion was suffering. Like they were the same thing. Mm-hmm. And now we've kind of flipped passion into like, Ooh, I've gotta go out and, and get all gung ho and find my passion because that's what's gonna get me so excited.[00:12:00]
But, This suffering, I think is built into it. Mm-hmm. If you're searching for something that's big and challenging, there's going to be some difficulty along the way. There's gonna be some misses along the way. There's going to be some level of suffering. Mm-hmm. If what you are driven for, if that passion, in fact is something that is super, super big and not easy to achieve.
Yeah. And
[00:12:22] Angie: I think that we as runner. Understand this concept, even if we may not have put words to it yet, right? Because there's a lot of people that say like, oh, running's one of my passions, right? Like, I'm passionate about running, I love running, and you know, or there are other people that are non-runners that are like, You have to be passionate about it, to do as much of it as you do, right?
Yeah. Like, oh, that must be one of your passions, right? And so we kind of use this word passion now to describe something that we love, but I think that we as runners can really understand how this does link to suffering, because we understand that there are. Plenty of [00:13:00] days, plenty of runs that do not feel good for us, and hopefully those are not every run.
Right. Well, hopefully that you guys are, are listening to this podcast and you understand that most of your running should feel easy, should feel good, but even those easy runs sometimes don't feel great. Right. Even. Even when you're supposed to be out on an easy run, sometimes your body just isn't feeling good that day, and that's totally normal for that to happen.
But then we also have these runs like speed workouts and tempo runs where we are literally trying to put ourselves into discomfort and stay there. We are trying to make our bodies uncomfortable and use our minds to continue to push. Through that discomfort without letting our foot off the gas. Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Right. And, and there's something inherently wonderful about that, and it's hard to describe when you have never done it right or when you've never really understood it. But like, [00:14:00] there's something, and, and this is funny for me to talk about really too. Tempo runs are one of the, the ones that I really think about when I think about like discomfort.
The suffering. Yeah. The, the discomfort and the suffering. Because like, I, I really like higher end speed workout. It hurts it like, you know, higher end speed work is not comfortable. I feel like the burning in my legs, I'm, you know, looking at my watch ready to stop. But it's different
[00:14:26] Kevin: than, than the slow burn.
Perpetual discomfort of a tempo run. Right.
[00:14:31] Angie: Especially when it's a time-based tempo run. You've always
[00:14:34] Kevin: hated the time base because you can't do it faster and get done with it if you're supposed to go with a moderate effort. Mm-hmm. For 20 minutes. Yep. It doesn't matter if you go slightly faster, you still have to do it for 20 minutes.
Yep. I remember when I first started assigning those to you, you're like, well, can't I do it for like, Two and a half miles. Mm-hmm. Could I do it for three miles? Like, it didn't matter what the distance was, it didn't matter. Could I do it for a distance instead of a time? Yep. And yep. You know, we, we had some discussion on that of well kind, kind of.
[00:14:58] Angie: Yeah, you can, but [00:15:00] it, it's, so, but it's funny because as I have evolved as a runner mm-hmm. I have come to appreciate Temple runs much more. I've, I've always kind of. Kind of appreciate him. I really hated him at the beginning, but like I kind of started to like, cuz I understood the point of that because you got that right.
I get that. But now in, in some ways I can look forward to it because, which is so weird for me to say, but I know there's going to be that discomfort involved. But also that feeling of knowing that I can be in that and be okay. Mm-hmm. And not have to slow down because I am mentally strong enough that I can keep pushing.
Has a level of satisfaction to it that is in the suffering. Like the suffering is leading to that level of satisfaction. And then also how I feel afterwards. Yeah. Like when I complete that rot and I'm like, I just did that. There is that level of satisfaction that comes from the amount of suffering that I was in [00:16:00] and finished and got through and.
Accomplished. Essentially, it's that sense of accomplishment from coming through the suffering, and I think that that can be a big part of that beneficial part of suffering that we're gonna be talking about later in the episodes. More. Yeah.
[00:16:16] Kevin: I mean, y I think, I think something else that came along with this was your experience as a runner.
Yeah. That you got better at pacing a tempo run. Oh, maybe like one, you just generally got fitter, but you also got better at pacing it if you don't try the tempo run at moderate pace. Mm-hmm. If you're like, oh, it's gonna be a 20 minute tempo, so how hard can I go for 20 minutes? You're doing it wrong. Like, if you are barely making it to the 20 minute mark mm-hmm.
You, you're going too fast. Yeah. Because the pace is something that you could sustain for longer than 20. Right. It's not easy. It's not super comfortable. But you could sustain it for longer than 20. Mm-hmm. So if you finished 20 minute tempo and you dropped the ground, you, you also went too fast. Yeah. So I think that's also a, a, a growth that you've had too.
[00:16:52] Angie: Yeah, for sure. So, before we jump more into that, this idea of beneficial suffering, let's go into this first [00:17:00] concept of pointless suffering. Because as one's gonna be fun, because I feel like so many runners put themselves into pointless suffering. That is, that's really not serving them in any way and.
Often is a result of a lot of these common running mistakes that we see that just lead to unnecessary suffering and struggle. Like running can be hard enough. Why would you try to make it harder than it needs to be? Are are you doing that just because and. The ultra community is a wonderful example of
[00:17:32] Kevin: this.
This is what I think we're gonna have a very good discussion here. I'm very excited for
[00:17:36] Angie: this part. And, and this is, you know, obviously I'm sitting next to an ultra runner here. Like we sleep in bed together every night. Like, so. I'm not knocking the ultra community, but I think like Kevin's first attempt at a hundred miles was in the heat of May in South Florida.
There was a Sahara Dust Cloud that was. Why would they plan this race [00:18:00] in May and not in December, January, February, when you know the weather is going to be better. Why is there a race? The bad water 1 35, that's the best in the middle of Death Valley in July. Right? Like they could have picked a different time of year, but the point is literally to make the conditions so inhospitable and so difficult mm-hmm.
That most people. Handle it. Right?
[00:18:26] Kevin: I mean, the Death Valley is at the beginning of July. Yeah. So it's like the middle of July. Yeah. So there were people who. Would, would run the, the Florida race almost as like a prep for it. Yeah. There were people that did the 50 miler of that one as a preparation mm-hmm.
For running through Death Valley. Yeah. In July there were some people that did both of the, the falls, the full hundred, and then went and were heading off to do 135 miles. Yeah. But you can't do it. Into the winter, the death valley one, because the mountain that you have to climb at the end of it will be too [00:19:00] covered in snow.
Okay. And it'll be physically impossible because there have been people that tried to do bad water in like December or January. Yeah. And they're not sure if it's any easier because once you start climbing the mountains, it's just feet of snow that you're trying to run through. Right. So that's got its own challenge to it.
It does. It does. But, and yet there. There was more than one person. There was like a group of people that were like, I wonder if we could do it in December. Right? Like,
[00:19:22] Angie: oh, okay. Just because they wanted to see if they can like, and I, on one hand, there's a level of respect that I have for people that are like, I just wanna see if I can do this.
Sure. Right? Like, I wanna really challenge myself here and see if I can, and then on the other hand, I'm like, what are you doing? You know, like, I think that ultra runners like are kind of their own breed from a lot of the things that I've learned. And so I think that's one example. But I think that there's a lot of other examples that we see with runners that typically.
Run shorter distances than ultramarathons. Right. Like more common distances. Yeah. That's
[00:19:59] Kevin: like a, an end [00:20:00] of a bell curve. Yeah. Let's look at the overall common, yeah. Common issues that somehow show up with a lot of runners that, that go through needless and pointless suffering. Right.
[00:20:08] Angie: And so one of them, like, and this is one that's like I see very commonly, like in various running groups online and especially online running groups, is that people will see a hard workout that their friend posted and they're, and then they decide to do it.
Oh, that looks cool. I'm, I'm gonna go ahead and do that. Yep. When maybe that's not the right workout for you. Right? Like, maybe that's not the right workout for that second person that just saw that workout posted. And unfortunately that can lead to over training. Like if that workout say, you know, the person that did that workout is training for a different race or is, you know, has five years of experience under their belt, whereas runner number two has only been running for a year.
Right. Runner. Number one that has been running for five, 10 years has more running experience, can probably do [00:21:00] different types of workouts. Mm-hmm. Than runner number two. Yeah. Right. And so just trying to copy what other people are doing often leads people to try something that they're not ready for, which can lead to injury, or.
It can just be a waste of time. You know, it, it can, not that any run is really a waste of time, but they could have chose a better workout that might help them to achieve whatever they are trying to pursue. Yes. You know, at that moment versus like just kind of doing a workout just because somebody else did it.
Just cuz it looked
[00:21:31] Kevin: good. Yeah. Like you also don't necessarily see the setup. To what that workout was. Mm-hmm. Okay. If runner A does like five by a mile and they put up their paces and you're like, well, that's phenomenal. Okay, but what if runner a is a three hour marathoner? Mm-hmm. And runner B that sees it as a four hour marathoner.
They should, or a five hour marathoner, they should not be doing the same workout at the same paces. Mm-hmm. Even if they're both at like the, if they both wanted to train for a marathon, they were both like, say they're both four hour marathoners. Mm. But [00:22:00] runner A is training for a marathon, and runner B is currently training for a 5k.
Mm-hmm. Five times a mile is not necessarily gonna be a super helpful thing. That's just gonna be way more than, than is necessary. Right. Could they do it? Sure. But it, it doesn't necessarily serve their current goal. Mm-hmm. And that I think is where you're going at with that. Like a bit of a waste of time is, yeah, sure.
You could do it. Why? Mm-hmm. Like you could put in a different workout, you wanna suffer through a workout. Great. Find a workout that would be most beneficial for the goal that you're aiming for. Yeah. You have, there are plenty of workouts out there. Mm-hmm. That will lead to pain and discomfort. Yeah. But if you're gonna do a workout that leads to pain, discomfort, at least make sure that it's paying off to whatever it is that you're aiming for.
Yeah.
[00:22:40] Angie: And kind of along this idea of like, you know, running with friends or like being influenced by like people online or people in your running group. There's oftentimes where I will see people that had a certain run on their schedule. Mm-hmm. Say they were supposed to do eight miles that day. Okay. And they decided to run [00:23:00] longer.
All my friends were doing 12, so I just decided to go with them. Uhhuh. Right. Or they decided to run faster than they. Were intending on, right? Because they got into their friend, their friend group went quicker. Correct. And they didn't wanna be spit out the back. They wanted to run with the group versus run by themselves.
Sure. So even though their easy pace, well let's just say their easy pace is 11 minute pace, but their friends were running 10 minute pace. And just because you can run 10 minute pace doesn't mean you should be running 10 minute pace on that long run. Right. Like there's a lot of times that I know that I can.
Run that pace, you know, for that distance, but is that actually gonna give me the same benefits as if. Took it a little bit slower. No, it's not going to, it's gonna give me different benefits. Not saying it's worthless. Not saying it's pointless, but it's, is it giving me the benefits that I want to get out of that run?
And the answer is probably
[00:23:52] Kevin: not. I mean, we've talked about this before of what's the point of the easy run? Mm-hmm. Like, Sometimes the easy run, the challenge of the easy run is actually slowing [00:24:00] yourself down. Yep. And it might be easier to stay with the group and just go with their pace. Maybe they are doing the same distance as you, but they're just doing it faster than you were aiming for.
Yeah. Like, oh well I don't wanna get spit out the back cuz then I feel bad about getting spit out the back. Well now you're falling into the comparison trap. Mm-hmm. There's, you are running your pace, your pace is gonna be most beneficial for you. It might feel fine to go with them because mm-hmm. You're, it's inherently easier to run with a group than to run solo.
And you're gonna maybe feel bad about yourself if you get spent at the back end, but ultimately you want that particular run to serve you best. Mm-hmm. So it doesn't really matter what your friends are doing, if it doesn't fit, like the plan that you have in front of. Now, sometimes you can see this coming, you're like, oh, well next weekend my friends are doing this run so I could adjust my week.
I could adjust this weekend to then make next weekend also fit into it. Yep. So you could fit this in, but if you're perpetually spurd moment being like, [00:25:00] oh, I was doing eight, they're doing 12, I'll do that. And then on Tuesday, well I was gonna do quarters, but they're doing four by a mile. Mm-hmm. And faster than my pace.
Like if your workouts are constantly dictated by the fastest, speediest, furthest group of the people that you run with, that that's probably not serving you very well.
[00:25:18] Angie: Right. And it's. Pointless suffering. Again, pointless suffering, right? Because like those workouts are then gonna be harder than they need to be for you to gain the benefits that you are trying to gain here, which means you're going to be suffering more like they're g going to feel harder.
And when you're constantly pushing harder than you should be, that's going to lead to over training, which is going to make you ti more tired, burnt out, possibly injured along the way. So again, pointless suffering, right? Like it's one thing if you. A point to all of it, but it's quite another just to go out and do stuff and just to continue to push yourself harder, but not actually gain a benefit from it.
That's what we don't want you guys doing, right? Like we're not saying that [00:26:00] suffering is bad, like we're about to get into a whole section on beneficial types of suffering. But don't do things just because they're hard. Don't do things just because other people are doing them and you wanna prove that you are.
On the same level as that other person. Like I think that that's another thing that people often try to do is they try to, they try to prove themselves, you know, to either themselves or their running group mm-hmm. Or some person from their past, right? Like they're trying to prove something like, oh, well if I do this workout, if I suffer through this and get through this, then that means
[00:26:32] Kevin: something.
Yeah. That it means something. It means so much. Relates to me when I was in college is I felt like I had to keep up with the people around it. Yeah. I was walking onto the team in college, so I felt like I had to keep up with everybody during workouts and I had to keep up with them during all of the easy runs.
Their easy pace was way faster than I needed to do. Yeah. Which, To be honest is actually an issue across all ncaa, like cross-country runners. Yeah. Is every just pushes too hard. Like everything is is faster than [00:27:00] it needs to be on easy days. And then you grind it on workout days. All coaches, like I think possibly every college coach across the country has said, okay, no racing today and then watches their entire team race each other.
Yeah. Like this is just what happens.
[00:27:14] Angie: But also at that time you are testosterone laden. 18 through 22 year old boys. Yeah. Right. Or you know, women, but like in your case, right? Men, men, boys. Men that are. Able to do dumb things like that. Oh yeah. And not have it affect you as much. Whereas those of us that are in our fourth decade, fifth decade, sixth decade of life, we can't be doing those things anymore.
Right. Like our bodies aren't gonna respond the same
[00:27:44] Kevin: way. But I saw it on Instagram. I should totally do it. No, that's like a, A torn hamstring waiting. It happen. Oh my gosh.
[00:27:49] Angie: Steve and Brad were having the funny, did you listen to that episode? Yes. They were having the funniest conversation. We listened to the Growth Equation Podcast by Steve Magnus and Brad Stolberg.
Also a [00:28:00] great podcast if you guys are looking for other podcasts to listen to besides ours. And they were kind of joking, about racing each other because they're
[00:28:07] Kevin: two, what distance would be the best thing? Mm-hmm. Because one, one lifts and played football and the other was a phenomenal distance runner.
Right? Yeah. They, they decided like, 10 yards would be the appropriate distance to race
[00:28:17] Angie: each each other and like, yeah. But the problem is we'd all go out too fast and I'd tear my proximal
[00:28:21] Kevin: hamstring. Both of them would just be laying on the ground in pain. Yeah. It's a pointless suffering point.
[00:28:26] Angie: Be suffering.
Right. Just to prove a point. Right. Just to like prove like who's faster than who right now.
[00:28:32] Kevin: Right. And you know, maybe if you go back enough times before they've, they've grown and, and reached the level of maturity they're at. They might have tried that. Yeah. They might have gone head-to-head and seen what happened.
Yeah. Before they even knew each other. Like you take them back to like high school day of photo. Oh, totally. They, in high school for sure. They definitely would've gone at each
[00:28:49] Angie: other for sure. But so yeah, the, so that's definitely a part of, Unnecessary and pointless suffering. but another really common one that we see as well is when people sign up for a [00:29:00] race, but then they don't give themselves enough time to train and they decide, I'm gonna run a half marathon and I'm gonna do it three months from now, even though I've never run a step, or I haven't run a step in a year, or haven't run a step in two years.
Right? So they say, I'm going to. Sign up for and train for this race. But I'm not gonna give myself the right timeline. And again, running is hard enough. If you train correctly, if you give yourself the right timeline, there's still gonna be all of those ups and downs. There's going still going to be the hard days and the easy days, and the suffering that's built into what we do as distance runners, as endurance athletes.
There is an inherent level of suffering. So why are you trying to make it harder than it needs to be on you and your body? Yeah,
[00:29:44] Kevin: I mean, I think races is a real big issue. Like if you don't have a race on the schedule and you're kind of like, I saw that this workout got posted and you are capable of doing it if it's not serving your goal, but you don't have a a, a [00:30:00] race coming up anytime relatively soon.
You could probably fit that into your plan. Mm-hmm. And be like, all right, well, I'll just have to adjust a few days after it so that I can recover from this workout. That may be a bit of a, of a reach for me. Or I'm gonna go a little bit longer with my friends this weekend and I'll hold back for the next few days at the start of next week.
You can do that when you sign up for a race that you have no potential of possibly being prepared to race well. Mm-hmm. That just seems to be like, Well, I mean, I've done races before. They're hard. So even if I'm not prepared, what's the worst that happens? It's hard. No. The worst that happens is that you hate the entire experience and then you don't wanna go back and run anymore.
Yeah. Like running is difficult, so don't make it more difficult just because you could. Yeah. Like, sure, I could do a half marathon, but what if I did it well? With a 40 pound backpack strapped my back. Mm-hmm. Like, okay, sure you could, but why are you doing
[00:30:58] Angie: that? Yeah. Yeah. It's [00:31:00] like I could clean the floors of my house with a toothbrush, but why the heck would I ever do that?
Yeah. Right. Like, would it get them clean? Probably. Yeah. Would I like just go out of my mind before I. Through the whole house almost. Definitely. Right? Like, yeah. And
[00:31:19] Kevin: then the dog would have to live
[00:31:20] Angie: outside. But it's also just pointless suffering, right? Like if you're just trying to clean up one area, maybe you're trying to just like clean up a little spot of grout that sure that gets dirty, okay, but toothbrush it fine.
But like the whole house with a toothbrush, that seems pointless. And. Definitely not a good use
[00:31:37] Kevin: of your time. Right. So the, the example that, that I came up with is right now in the school year, is my students are signing up for classes that they want to take next year. Mm-hmm. And so they're all trying to figure out like, what do I take do?
Should I take this class? Should I take honors English or regular English? Mr. Brown, what do you think I should do in math class? And so I'm like, look, take the classes on an honors level that you think are gonna be worthwhile to you on an [00:32:00] honor. Yeah, don't take it just cuz it's an honors class. Like if you don't like English, why would you take the honors English class if you don't like math?
Even if you are good at it, why are you gonna take the honors math class? Mm-hmm. Like, this is how I took classes when I was in high school. Yeah. I took honors math and science because I was good at them and liked them. I was pretty good at English. I never took a single honors English class because I didn't see the point of it.
I was like, well that just seems. More reading than I want to do, so I'm going to not sign up for that class. Yeah. That's honestly what I did. And so that's, that's what I'm trying to help explain to some of these kids. But they're like, oh, but if I, if I do this class, then I could have six of my seven classes with all the honors classes.
Yeah. I'm like, oh, okay. But why? Mm-hmm.
[00:32:47] Angie: And, and for some people, That's important. Yes. Right. Like for, for me, right? Like I was the top of my class.
[00:32:55] Kevin: So you need, need to make sure
[00:32:56] Angie: you had the GPA in mind. I exactly like, I needed to take, if I [00:33:00] wanted to have a chance to be the valedictorian, I needed to take all of those classes, I needed my schedule to be as hard as it could be so that I had all of those points inflated because that was my goal, right?
Which I, my goal was to be,
[00:33:12] Kevin: Right, which I add in. Yeah. Like if this is your goal, then a hundred percent this is the schedule. Yeah. Not only that you should, but that you need to take. Yes. Because otherwise people are gonna jump you on your, on the class rank. Right. And
[00:33:23] Angie: if that's not the goal, then, then yes.
Back to your point. Right? Like, let's think about what classes you're taking. That's the point of it. Right. So I think that all goes back to like, what is your goal? Like why are you doing this to yourself? Like, and is there a point, like, is is it beneficial for you to take all of these. AP and honors classes?
Or is it just, are you just taking them just because your parents said you needed to, or because you want to say that I'm taking all honors and AP classes, like, you know, there's some people that just wanna say that.
[00:33:51] Kevin: Right. So is it worthwhile for me to try and run a 2 36 marathon, or am I just trying to prove something to a college coach that I haven't seen in many, many [00:34:00] years?
Yeah. What's the answer? I don't, I don't need to prove anything to that guy. Yeah, I just don't.
[00:34:08] Angie: Yeah. But would there be a benefit to you running that 2 36 marathon for you? Like would there be a benefit to. That goal or to that suffering that you would have to go through to hit that goal.
[00:34:21] Kevin: I've gone through a lot of suffering to try and hit that goal and still come up short of the time.
Mm-hmm. That's where detaching from the goal is kind of helpful. Yeah. Which also involves sort of this whole idea of like passion. Like I was really driven to try and hit this number. Mm-hmm. But ultimately I only gained satisfaction with it when I was able. Pull back and have the number not define me.
Mm-hmm. I think that's where the difference comes in, is suffering that you can kind of mentally overcome of like, yes, this is going to be physically taxing, but if I don't reach the goal, that doesn't say anything about me. If I go for a difficult workout and I don't complete the workout, I don't hit the times as.[00:35:00]
Prescribed. That doesn't mean that I'm a bad person. That doesn't mean I'm a bad runner. Mm-hmm. Just means I didn't hit that particular workout. Mm-hmm. So I don't have to then punish myself by not feeding myself afterwards or by the next workout needs to be even faster, even longer. Like there's not a, a trade off on that level.
Like, well, I didn't suffer enough there, so I have to increase my suffering somewhere else. Like the workout can be hard, still not hit the times and, and. Move along with
[00:35:27] Angie: yourself. Yeah, I mean, that would also be like pointless suffering as as well. So now let's get into this idea of beneficial suffering.
Like we've talked about pointless suffering, ideas of why. You know, we, or our house, sometimes we make things harder than they need to be or seek out suffering just for the point of suffering,
[00:35:49] Kevin: which sometimes can be entertaining. we'll get into that as as beneficial.
[00:35:52] Angie: Yeah, I was gonna say that would be more in the beneficial realm of
[00:35:55] Kevin: things.
Right? Right. I wanna add sometimes that mm-hmm. Things that may seem like pointless suffering. And I [00:36:00] think this is where your, your ultra end of the spectrum may come into beneficial, suffer. Yeah,
[00:36:04] Angie: I think, I think we can definitely have a good discussion about that here too, but like, I think that some people can kind of swing to the opposite end of where they try to avoid all suffering, right?
Sure. Like if they, if it's hard, they just don't do it. And that can lead to a lack of progress and a loss of potential. So what we want you guys to understand, and hopefully you've kind of, you kind of already understand this on. A certain level because you are a runner, most likely if you are listening to this podcast, right, is that we can see suffering as a good thing.
We can use suffering to our advantage to help us become stronger, both physically and mentally, and to help us move forward as long as we're not. Doing suffering pointlessly, as long as we're not over-training or, you know, doing workouts that don't align with our, our goals or, or who we want to be, or, you know, the plan that [00:37:00] we've.
Created or chosen for ourselves. Mm-hmm. We can understand that there is that inherent level of suffering in a personalized plan, in a TR a race that we're training for in a goal that we've chosen for ourself, and we can use that to our advantage and we can use our training to help build. Our strength both physically and mentally for like in order to prepare us for that goal or for other areas of our
[00:37:29] Kevin: life as well.
Yeah, we can use that, that plan. I mean, that's part of the thing is it has to, it has to matter to you. Yeah. It's not just suffering for the sake of, well, I mean, I saw it online, like that's somebody else's suffering that then you then try and take on yourself. Yeah. If you have a race that you actually have a plan that's going to work for you, you wanna do the thing, you're gonna push yourself for the race, you're gonna push yourself in the training.
Great. Mm-hmm. If you don't even have a race, but you're like, but here's a plan that I'm going to get faster. I'm gonna get stronger. Whatever the thing is, there's gonna be some challenges along that way. Mm-hmm. But those [00:38:00] challenges serve a benefit because you still have a goal out there that you're striving for.
It's not like you're just gonna wake up one day and be like, yeah, well now I can just casually run 20 miles. Like there's a plan in place to build up to that kind of distance. And that doesn't mean that 20 miles is now just gonna be this casual thing you can do. There's a plan in place if you would like 20 miles to be a casual thing that you could do, right.
But for a while that distance is still going to evolve some level of discomfort and suffering. Yeah, I think for a, a, a long time actually,
[00:38:29] Angie: Yeah. And I think that some people, especially people that are not runners, look at us and think that everything that we do is pointless suffering. Yes. Right. They can't see the benefit.
[00:38:39] Kevin: I don't understand why you were out there for 30 minutes. Right. And, and then I tell 'em about Sunday and they're like, okay, well I really don't get that.
[00:38:44] Angie: Exactly. But we as runners understand that we can use our running as ways to make ourselves stronger and ways that we can learn how we respond to discomfort, right? We can use [00:39:00] running as a tool to reveal certain things to ourselves. It can reveal those areas where we are already strong. Like for me it was speed work. I know that I am stronger in speed work and the tempo runs. That's what revealed to me some of my weaknesses, like being able to just be in that kind of lower level of discomfort Ah, mm-hmm.
And sustain it for a long period of time. That for a long time was a level of weakness for me. And it's still, I would say, more of a weakness than, you know, speed work. Can you speed work? Yeah. Like my higher end speed work, because I'm just, I think I derive more. Joy and satisfaction maybe from that higher end speed work probably, which helps make that, more of a strength for me.
Yeah, right. Because I just kind of like it. And I think that when we do things that we enjoy, that makes that level of suffering easier to [00:40:00] tolerate.
[00:40:00] Kevin: Yeah. But I mean, either way, what you're looking at here is kind of like suffering as a flashlight. Mm-hmm. Suffering that highlights your strength. Yes.
Suffering that highlights your weaknesses. And then you're like, oh, well that's an area of weakness. Mm-hmm. So if I kind of. Dig in a little bit to that suffering. If I can live in that suffering discomfort, maybe I can improve that weakness, right? Maybe I can make myself stronger in that area. And this works with running and life.
Like, maybe I, I, I don't really like going out in big social settings and just walking up and having a conversation with strangers. I, this is, Literally exactly. Me. I don't enjoy the big social setting and small talk with people that I kind of know. It's uncomfortable for me, so I can put myself in that scenario.
Yeah. Because I've done difficult things, so I'm like, look, this is gonna be fine. I've, I've done other things. I shared feelings with Angie. I can probably have small talk with this person. Mm-hmm. It's going to be okay. Yeah. If I have small talk with someone that, [00:41:00] and I know them, this isn't a complete stranger. That's a whole different level of discomfort. Mm-hmm. But this is someone that maybe I don't see on a regular basis, and now they're gonna ask me things about my life. I'm gonna gonna have to share them. Then I'm gonna have to ask them things about their life. It's gonna be this,
[00:41:15] Angie: it's called human interaction.
[00:41:17] Kevin: It's gonna be this like conversation that we're having and I'm gonna feel uncomfortable and tired at the end of it.
[00:41:23] Angie: Which is so funny because like people, when they talk to you, They don't get that from you. You know, they're like, oh, Kevin's such, you know, he's so fun to talk to, or He's so great about this, or He is so funny.
And, you know, it's so like, you don't put that vibe off, when you are in a lot of social situations. Well, great. And sometimes you do.
[00:41:41] Kevin: I've worked really hard. Yeah. Well done. Thank you. Well done. Right. So, so part of this thing I think that, they want to cover inside of, of beneficial suffering is balancing the risk reward.
Yeah. And this kind of relates back to pointless suffering is [00:42:00] doing a really hard workout just to say you did a hard workout. Yeah. Versus doing a really hard workout that may in fact lead to multiple days of discomfort. It may even screw up the next week. Mm-hmm. Like if you really overreach for a workout, you're probably gonna have to do some readjustment with your plan.
Mm-hmm. But is that risk worth the possible payout for it? Maybe.
[00:42:20] Angie: Right. And it might be for sure. Mm-hmm. Right. Like, and I think that that's when you're following a plan that you know is right for you. There are going to be some challenging workouts on that plan. Like we have to challenge ourselves if we want to grow and if we wanna get stronger.
That is what training is. Training is about putting ourselves in an uncomfortable situations and forcing our bodies to adapt. That is what this is all about. Like, so if you want to improve as a runner, you've got to become okay with discomfort. You have to become okay with suffering. Not every run. Should be easy, right?
Most of your runs should be easy, but if [00:43:00] every run is easy, you are going to stop progressing. You are going to plateau, and you may even start to decline because we need those hard things in our life to push us forward, both in our running and in the rest of our life, right? But like Kevin said, what is the risk of this workout?
What is the risk of trying to pursue this goal versus what is the reward that I will gain from it? Is this the right time for me to pursue this goal? Mm-hmm. If you are currently trying to. You know, raise three small children under the age of four and trying to work and trying to volunteer and trying to do all these other things.
Is that the right time for you to also add marathon training into the mix? Only you can answer that question, right? Is that. Worth it for you at that time in your life? Is the risk of you being more tired, possibly getting injured, being burned out, not having as much time for your [00:44:00] family or for these other commitments?
Is that worthwhile for you to add? That running goal into the mix as well. Some people are gonna answer that with a yes. Okay, fine. Some people are gonna answer that with a no also fine. But it's about us understanding that risk reward and then making that decision that we feel is right for us at the time.
[00:44:20] Kevin: I like that. I like that you kind of took the, the broader approach of the risk reward of literally even putting a marathon on the, on the plan. Yeah. Of like, do I have the time of my life there? Cuz there's a whole bunch of risks that show up just by looking to undertake marathon training. Mm-hmm. Right. I wanna do a couple very specific examples from, from my training.
I was lifting today and I was doing bench press is an empty weight room. I had seven up, I had literally had, I had seven reps. I'm like, should I do an eighth one? I probably could, but immediately I did a very quick risk reward analysis and I was like, okay, if I can't get the [00:45:00] eighth one up, this bar's going to land on me.
And that's, that's not a risk that I'm going to take. So I pushed it back. I, I racked it. I was done with that one cuz the benefit of getting up the eighth one mm-hmm. Was not worth possibly dropping on my chest. Right. With no one else around him. With no one else around him. Okay. Whereas at the end of this week, I'm gonna do a, a running adventure that I like to take on, on, on Friday of, of Holy Week usually is something that is long and quite difficult and.
The, I don't have a race imminent on the schedule, so I can do this long, difficult thing, and it may take me a few days to recover from it. Mm-hmm. But it's not really going, like the, the challenge of it, of going up and over this overpass over and over and over and over again is, are you doing the overpass again?
I'm gonna do the overpass. Okay. is not gonna break me. It's gonna be. And I may need to take a couple of recovery days after that. Mm-hmm. But that's fine. Like I'm not going, I'm not setting myself up for injury. I [00:46:00] didn't see this on somebody else's plan, so I have to do it online. I looked at where my current training is and said from where I'm at, this would be a physically difficult thing for me to do.
Mm-hmm. But within the realm of things that I can do.
[00:46:13] Angie: But you are also looking. The spiritual benefit that you get from it too, which increases my reward. Right. Which I think is really important because Kevin likes to do really hard workouts on Good Friday. Like as part of your own spiritual journey.
[00:46:29] Kevin: Yes.
You referred to them, you were trying to explain this somebody else. You referred to it as my own personal sufferer fest. Yes. Which Kevin Sufferfest is exactly what we're talking about. Right. In my personal suffering, I said, we're examining suffering. Yes. Why do I choose Stuart? Because I, there's a spiritual aspect of, mm-hmm.
Can I do. Super physically difficult thing. Mm-hmm. And the answer is, yes, I can. We can all do super physically difficult things. Right? And when it comes up to that point of don't you want to quit? Of course I do, but it's good Friday and I'm not [00:47:00] going to, I'm gonna go up and over the overpass again, and then I'm gonna do it again, and then I'm gonna do it again.
[00:47:04] Angie: Right. And that benefit, the reward that you get from that is, Both physical, mental, and spiritual,
[00:47:13] Kevin: which really helps overweight the risks of things that could come out from it. Right. But because the biggest risk is I'm gonna get tired. Right.
[00:47:21] Angie: But the, you're also not going to do it to. The point of injuring yourself.
Yes. Like if you feel like say something acts up on you. Yep. Unexpected. Like half you're hamstring
[00:47:34] Kevin: something, we get hamstring running downhill. I'm gonna, I'm done with it. Yeah. I'm not going to drag my limp leg right up and over the thing. Right. Because I said I'm gonna go 15 overpasses.
[00:47:43] Angie: Like that's because then all of a sudden the risk becomes greater than the reward. Exactly. Right. And so we all have to kind of weigh that out. In our own lives, right? In our own running, because parts of your plan are not going to be fun. Like there are going to be workouts that you [00:48:00] like and then workouts that you don't like. And when you see that workout on your calendar, there might be some of those that you're like, oh, I really don't wanna do that.
And we have that tendency to like, skip it, push it to next week. You know, like try to avoid it in some way. But when we can make peace with suffering and understand like, I'm gonna go do this workout and it's gonna hurt and it's gonna be hard and I'm gonna wanna quit. Mm-hmm. But I'm not going to. Right.
There's a huge benefit that comes, especially mentally, right? When we can stare suffering in the face and not back down, then we know. Directly correlating that to our running. Right? When you're at the, in that race and you get to that point in the race, whether that's mile nine of a half marathon, whether that's mile 21 of a marathon, whether that's mile 1.8 of a 5k, right?[00:49:00]
There's that point in the race or there's that point in whatever run you're doing where you just wanna stop. Your body's saying, why the heck are you doing this? You need to stop and walk. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I know I do. Right? But I'm gonna keep going. Mm-hmm. I've done it before. I'm gonna keep doing it now.
And that's part of the benefit of training, right? This is why people that run half marathons, marathons with no training, Have so much difficulty for the most part, right? Every now and then you'll find a unicorn that's like, oh, I did it with no training, and it was amazing, right? But like for the most part, It's because yes, physically they weren't prepared for it, but also mentally.
Yeah. Because when they got to those hard parts, they didn't have the mental strength and the fortitude to keep going. They, their body, their, their brain gave up and so then their body
[00:49:50] Kevin: followed. Yes. Yeah. I mean, this is what happens if you keep skipping or you cut different workouts shorter. Yeah. Anytime the, the certain type of workout.
Tricky. [00:50:00] You, you cut it. Mm-hmm. And you call it mm-hmm. Or you just keep pushing off that type, or skipping a certain workout you've told yourself, when it gets hard, I don't have to do it. Mm-hmm. When it gets hard, I'm able to quit. Because that's the pattern that you've set up. Yep. So then when it gets into a race and it gets hard, your brain's gonna be like, no, no, no.
We've done the hard part. Now's time to quit. Yeah. And, and that's, it's gonna get very difficult to overcome that. Mm-hmm. So there's a huge benefit of doing this during the run. Yep. Some of the runs need to be uncomfortable. Some of the runs need to be getting you to a point where you really want to quit.
[00:50:32] Angie: Yep. And you don't, and and we even set workouts up like that for some of our, our athletes Yes. Like that are designed for them to. Because the point is, can you know that you're not hitting the paces, that you're not doing the thing and keep going? It's a mental workout. It's not designed as a physical workout.
It's not designed for them to succeed at hitting those times. The point of that workout is for them to see those [00:51:00] paces slipping away from them. Yep. And then choose to keep pushing at whatever that level is for them, whatever they have left in them. Yeah. You know, can you end that workout and. I gave that everything I could, even though I didn't hit the paces that were set for me.
[00:51:14] Kevin: Yes. Set number three was a train wreck. I was nowhere near the suggested paces, but I still did it. Yep. And I still gave it what I could.
[00:51:21] Angie: I still hit my effort level. Yeah. Right. Like I may not have hit the paces, but I still hit that effort level.
[00:51:26] Kevin: Yeah. And. Depending on the workout, maybe that's, maybe that's the point.
Maybe you gained all of the mental benefits you needed. Mm-hmm. And that, that physical benefit, if you hit those paces all the way through, you may have just torched your legs. So it's probably even a, a win that you weren't able to keep up the paces all the way through. Yeah. And you gained the huge mental benefit of doing it mm-hmm. Of putting yourself in the discomfort of being super uncomfortable throughout like the back half of the workout. Yeah. And still completing it. Yeah.
[00:51:54] Angie: I mean, and if you think about it, there are so many areas of our life where we do this, where [00:52:00] we choose suffering because in our minds, the reward outweighs the risk.
The benefits outweigh the costs, right? Like, Parenting is one that comes to mind, right? Like parenting does not make our lives easier, but is it worth it? Heck yeah, it is. Would I do it again? Absolutely right. Like, but being a parent is one of the hardest things I've ever done, like having to. Raise little humans that depend on me and to try to be a good human and be a good example and raise them in the way that I think is, is the right way and, and the way that is gonna help them grow up to be strong, good humans.
Like this is not easy and all of you that are parent, you know how difficult parenting is and how difficult it can be, but I. Most, if not all parents would say that it's worth it because of all of the joy that comes with it as well.
[00:52:59] Kevin: Yeah. I mean, there's [00:53:00] so many things that you struggle with as a parent.
Yeah. Like I was just texting her older one today, and I, I said, I'm heading out on a run. Love you. And she wrote back, love you more. I said, doubt it. I, I used to hold you as you would poop and throw up on me. So I'm pretty sure I've got this. And didn't she say, oh, that's your problem? Yeah. She said, well, maybe you should potty train me earlier, which I did not even 13.
I did not go down that rabbit hole. I, I, I could have come back, but I just took off on my run. Right. But it did illustrate like, We didn't have to have kids. Yeah. Like we didn't, we chose to do that. We chose to, in knowing the challenge that there was going to be cause of all of the rewards that are gonna come out of that.
Yeah. Because we wanted to have kids.
[00:53:44] Angie: Right. Or like we as ladies that, you know, when we're going out for the night and we wear high heels, even though we know that they're gonna kill our feet and that we're going to regret it later in the night and probably the next day, but we still wear high heels because, [00:54:00] It makes our outfit look better.
Like in that situation, we have decided that the, the reward, the benefit of us, you know, looking good that night outweighed the pain that we were gonna experience in our feet. I very, very rarely make that choice at n anymore. Like I did wear heels. Just a couple weeks ago, like, I like to tell people that I live my life in flip flops and running shoes.
but I did wear heels. That was almost the name of our company. It was that, you know, before we became real life runners, we went through a, a short period of time where the name of the company was Flip Flops and Running Shoes. but, It was just too long.
[00:54:38] Kevin: It's too much.
[00:54:38] Angie: It was too long, to type that out in the u r URL every single time.
but yeah, I wore, I wore heels a couple weeks ago to like a gala, and it was, I, I regretted it, but it wasn't as, it wasn't as terrible as it could have been, and
[00:54:52] Kevin: I wasn't even there like most times if you wear heels, I'm also carrying your shoes. My flips in my pi, my flip flops are in my. Like there's only [00:55:00] certain pants that I'm allowed to go out with if you're wearing heels.
Cuz they have to have a deep enough pocket that it can fit a pair of flip flops.
[00:55:05] Angie: Well usually you put 'em in your jacket pocket for me, right?
[00:55:07] Kevin: Yeah. So, so then I then wear like very fancy cuz I have to have a jacket on that'll hold flip flops.
[00:55:12] Angie: Exactly. So, you know, kind of bringing it back, back around here is like understanding.
Suffering is part of the process and that we can't get away from it both in running and in the rest of our life. And can we make peace with it? Can we decide like, yes, this is suffering that I'm willing to go through and that I'm on board with, and I don't have to run away from it? I don't have to get rid of it. I don't have to avoid it. I can. Run head on into this suffer fest that I have chosen for myself and see what happens and see how I come out on the other side, physically stronger, mentally stronger, emotionally stronger, able to do more than I was able to do before I took [00:56:00] this on and making. sure that You know, those benefits outweigh the reward in that we're not just suffering pointlessly for the point of suffering, but we're actually choosing those times of suffering for our own greater good.
[00:56:12] Kevin: Yeah, I think that's a really good synopsis of it. Like it's the risk reward, it's the cost. Cost benefit, like is it worth the suffering to you? Mm-hmm. Not because it'll look good, not cuz you can post up on social media. Yeah. And people will like it. But actually just to you, if no one else knew that it happened, would it still be important to you to go through the suffering?
Yep.
[00:56:34] Angie: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. All right, you guys. So thank you so much for joining us today. If you haven't left us a review yet or shared our podcast with a friend, we would love for you to do that because when you leave us a review, when you share the podcast, either on social media or text this episode to a friend, it helps us to reach.
More people and help more runners to become physically and mentally stronger. And that's really our goal, with this podcast and with everything that we do. So, [00:57:00] share this episode with a friend and if you're looking for coaching, we would love to help you. So head over to real life runners.com. You can check out our coaching options there.
We offer group coaching and one-on-one coaching to help you achieve your goals, to help you decide what level of suffering you would like to, to undergo and to guide you so that you. Have to go through pointless suffering. You don't have to make all the mistakes that so many runners make that you can avoid a lot of those mistakes, and you can choose your suffering wisely.
Understanding that it is to your own benefit. We would love to guide you and support you through that process of becoming a physically and mentally stronger runner. So check out all of our coaching options [email protected] And as always, thank you so much for joining us. This has been The Real Life Runners podcast, episode number 302.
Now, get out there and run your life.
